hello friends,
At this point i would just like to make it clear that i have nothing personal against WEBBER and have not taken offence to any of his comments. NO APOLOGY IS NECESSARY.
This is because i really enjoy any form of intellectual discourse especially one which may eventually reach a healthy conclusion. I apologise to you if my tone sounded a bit stiff but i get really passionate when i speak about something i love, my intention is only to encourage further discussion and hats off to you sir for getting involved further. I REALLY ENJOY YOUR DISCUSSION.
With regards to the Nascar example my friend, i do believe that F1 and Nascar is as similar to each other as sepak takraw is to a wet t-shirt contest. It is a different sport playing by different set of rules altogether.
I just want to reiterate the fact that, the issue is how to make our films gain back the bulk of the malaysian market share and to be competitive in the international film market as what has now been achieved by korea and thailand.
A better example would be between ferrari and for discussion sake, let's say minardi (Although personally i believe Mclaren ROCKS supreme!!). Both have the same sets of rules to play with (because we are in the same industry, ie the film industry) but one is wealthier than the other (US vs Malaysian budget). Your point rings true when you say better education would create better chances to succeed, as in Schumacher vs. Yoong. ( a more educated director could possibly make a better movie) BUT even so, once in a while, there is an opportunity for the RENAULT to shine, eventhough they are working with a smaller budget than ferrari, they find a way to beat goliath because THEY ALL STILL PLAY BY THE SAME RULES (even with a small budget great content can still shine . as in the case of the THAI film industry). But if Minardi for instance, already a weak team, is further weakened by given an additional set of rules only for them, for example , the driver must race in reverse!...heehee. I believe this would further impair their already unenviable position (Malaysia with inconsistent and harsh censorship).
As in engineering, in architecture, we are asked to follow the proven principles of the past and build on that, in order to develop more advaced technologies (unless it is in a groundbreaking field of engineering with no prior references or case studies whatsoever) My discussions are based on actual data from case studies presented to us in the Asian Content industry seminar from the 14 asian nations and these data all suggests that in order for any film or film industry to get recognition internationally and to gain back the local market share, these countries must have relaxed their censorship laws. If one is not thinking to be a player in the international scene , i guess our censorship law is alright. no problem to cari makan. If that is all you want in life... to be ordinary and safe.
Here i bring back the example of SEPET which has recently won The Tokyo International Film Festival's best Asian Film Award. The sepet version we saw in the malaysian cinema was severely and ridiculously censored but the version that is avaiable to the world is unadulterated. This shows that WE MALAYSIANS have content that intrigues the world but it has to be honest and It is not so much the budget, but the integrity of the content that is important. The less censorship, the more interesting the content is for the international market.
I am so happy and excited for SEPET because i believe their win cements the behavioural pattern of the international market based on the data presented to us in the Asian Content Industry seminar. I also Want to congratulate YASMIN once again for her conviction to the integrity of her story and sincerely believe she will help lead us into a new era of filmmaking in Malaysia by example.
I like what visitor said about the rating system. That is a true mark of a develop nation, that different age groups, with differing levels of experience and intellecetual development are allowed to watch content which is suitable for their age.
By having a censorship system, the government is losing billion of dollars in potential income to the pirates. Because the more you suppress the more interest it generates. Almost all my friends have watched Schindler's list eventhough it was banned in Malaysia. You can get the DAREDEVIL dvd here eventhough the film itself was banned here in Malaysia.
By having a censorship system we are saying that the people of Malaysia are not smart enough to judge for themselves what is good or bad, so, we will tell them what is good for them based on our personal value system and bias. Wow, how judgemental we are of our own countrymen. Or maybe that is our CULTURE?
I am not asking an also not in agreement to no censorship. Keep what is really sensitive to our hearts like religion or what have you... but give us freedom to dabble in the rest. I tell you, then... people will start to notice the country that is near indonesia and in-between thailand and singapore! what's the name of that country again...??
EMPOWER THE PEOPLE
AFDLIN SHAUKI
Pelikat Pants Designer
Number 1 Pelikat Pants Maker in the World!
56 comments:
Good Morning Afdlin !!
I love your enthusiasm to overcome the movie issues in Malaysia.Besides Thailand and Korean movies, I find the Philipines movies quite interesting as well.Simple plot,simple lines..but yet very entertaining.I believe we can learn something from them.
Anyway SELAMAT HARI RAYA & MAAF ZAHIR BATIN to you and your family.
hi afdlin...i agree dengan the webber at some point..Tapi apa yang I nak stress kat sini to the webber is that when we are talking about film..the foundation is an ART...engineering is all about science...Ok if in science, if u test sthg if say chemical ingredients A+B=C, even with the restriction pun the maths is there..there will be one absolute answer...tapi film is art...A+B might be c, might be D..it is about creativity...I setuju msia kene longgarkan cencorship law in film kalau nak majukan lagi industry film kita..takleh nak comment panjang anak I sakit and busy with my part time study..ni yang berjaga malam....hanya pendapat dari seorng accountant di london yang sangat meminati yr work...good luck frm me and my family...selamat hari raya, teruskan berkarya...
akum bro..
i was ashamed by how far have i put our directors down without having to think about the external influence limiting their creative minds. i would like to see how Yusof Haslam, Prof Madya Razak Mohaideen and the likes' works if there's no censorship bugging them. do they have any short films that's different than their works now and those works are evidence that they can do better?i'm not making fun here, but i really am intrigued.
on another point, please bro!don't mention about the Daredevil thingy. or even the Hellboy one.it was a discrace to us all Malaysians at that time. being a graphic novel reader, i know these character well enough. but judging them by their own name?moreover judging their name WRONGLY?Censorship board...PLEASE!!
don't know what i'm talking about?let me tell you what happened.During the screening of the Daredevil movie, the Cencorship Board (CB) had banned the movie, cause the title have the word 'devil' in it.for the 1st time ever i, as a malaysian, was humiliated that way by the ones i am supposed to respect. 1st of all, the word daredevil DO NOT relate to any devil but a human that's daring enough to do all kind of stunts and such. it was like closing all Isetan outlets because they have the word 'setan' in it.
then came Hellboy.luckily the distributors that brought in the movie was clever enough to change the title to the cheeky "Super Sapiens" (although in the movie, the word Hellboy came out and subtitled as 'pemuda neraka').
don't the people in CB know English?if it happened with Hellboy, i had to agree.the name was indeed referring to the word Hell.but dDredevil?come to think of it, i thought it was a minister or an MP that came out with this stuff, and forcing the CB to ban it.can't remember. if anybody remember, can you enlighten me?
oh..and i haven't mention about the translation!!but that's in another post.i think i'll write about it in my blog..
p/s:congrats to the translators for PGL - the 1st malay movie that the translation was so good i had to rely on them.good job!
Betul cakap abg kodok tu... Esok raya.. yeah.. silalah ke blog terbuka ku di X-GuY.CoM.
"if it happened with Hellboy, i had to agree.the name was indeed referring to the word Hell."
Lizzam, u can't be serious!
so the phrases "Go to hell" and "Hell has no fury" must also be banned?
cannot lah like dat!
Miss E,
i think you've just stated our goal very clearly.
we can learn something from our neighbouring filmmakers right now.
let's aim for the day when they can learn a thing or two from us!
i do frog to our so called "malaysian movie" scene..why blame "censorship" plus budget "tak cukup" when the filmakers itself can produce a good movie?have u seen "malaysian movie"..its sucks hell..except for movies like sepet, PGL, gol & gincu & buli (ok ok je) from the recent time...even ali setan, gila-gila remaja plus the masterpiece bukit kepong lagi best..not to mention all the classic by P. Ramlee..why do film makers nowdays complain so much? concentrate on a good scripts, story board plus the details in film & etc etc (cth: iranian movie)...jgn buat halai balai jee...
ps: i certainly hope the new wave of independent filmakers can rise to the occasion & kick some serious ass along the way..show the so called "filmakers" how to produce film..
When one uses a mathematical approach to arguments about life and living, many problems arise. It is false logic or false dilemma or better still, call it a salesman’s trick eg.
It is common to argue like this:
Either A or B
It is not A
Therefore, it is B.
This is often a perfectly acceptable form of argument, as in this case:
Either Ah Beng has a driving license or else Ah Beng is not permitted to drive.
Ah Beng has not got a driving license.
Therefore, Ah Beng is not permitted to drive.
Or We have censorship rules.
Smart filmmakers will know how to work round the rules.
If you don't know how, then you are NOT a smart filmmaker.
Or
The rules are made by smart people.
So the rules are smart.
If you cannot beat the rules, then you are stupid.
Such arguments are flawed in itself yet it is used again and again.Why is it that we cannot say that the rules are too stupid for smart people to follow?
Therefor, we can attack such argument as this , which is NOT acceptable:
Either 1 + 1 = 5 or 2 + 2 = 5
It is not true that 1 + 1 = 5
Therefore, 2 + 2 = 5
Why not?
Because, unlike in the first argument, the alternatives presented in the either/or premise could both be false. People often construct such arguments without registering that both alternatives might be false, as in this example,most common in advertisements:
Either you buy the Bazooka BB1000 for great home theatre
entertainment, or else you make do with second rate rubbish.
Are you really prepared to accept second rate rubbish?
I thought not.
So you have no choice, do you? You have to buy the Bazooka BB1000!
Life is not black and white always and there are lots of shades of black,grey and white and a myriad of colours within.
Life is dynamic and so what works for a particular point of time in history may not necessarily work now.
Btw, is there a set of censorship rules written somewhere and published by the relevant authorities in this country so that one can actually read them and refer to them for a more intellectual debate on this issue?
Do these rules form a code of conduct ( meaning that they are exhaustive or can new rules be added on from time to time?)
I seem to remember that there were some sort of rules imposed by some authority governing public plays etc. Maybe someone from Actor's Studio can enlighten me here.
It is only fair that one knows the rules of engagement before anything else.
i have asked the Censorship Board about the set of rules. all they said was that they are just a bunch of guidelines set by the govt. which means the guidelines are pretty open to interpretations.
Ah Zan,
why do filmmakers nowadays complain so much?
have u actually read or heard about the ridiculous obstacles that have been faced by Yasmin Ahmad or even some of the independent filmmakers?
why is it that everyone brings up Iranian films as examples whenever we talk about censorship? do you know that some Iranian films, such as Jafar Panahi's The Circle, are banned in Iran? and do you know that most Iranian films that are praised in foreign countries do not do well in Iran itself?
so i don't think Iranian films are a good example of how to work around censorship.
i see that the Iranian model, as far as the Iranian filmmakers getting foreign funding and such, similar to some filmmakers from China, is now taking shape in Malaysia as well. some of the independent filmmakers are seeking fuding from overseas. Yuhang is a good example, his latest film is funded by Andy Lau.
Ok, so I reckon these guidelines are probably in a written format but are they freely available to members of the public or to say, an aspiring film maker to read and perhaps try to understand them?
Are these guidelines similar to that used by city hall or DBKL to govern live public performances eg. like those by Instantcafe theatre?
the visitor,
FYI, i was commenting in the context of "not allowing anything that's related to the devil to be shown in mass media". these are roughly the words used to back up the banning of Daredevil.
i was trying to compare those two movies. one, used the word Devil and was banned, another, has the word Hell and changed the title to save itself from being banned.
but i agree with you...the usage of the word "Hell" itself does not justify banning.it is the content that matter.keanu reeves went to Hell and back in constantine but it was not banned. what about Spawn?
btw, you said you asked the CB about the censorship. can you get them for us, or is it available anywhere? we would like to know what kind of movies not to expect in our cinemas.
i think so. the guidelines should be available to the public. it's definitely not an official secret kan?
i only know they used to send me a booklet of titles that are banned.
ya lar, Lizzam, that's the problem with our censors. they don't look at content. everything is taken at face value. that's part of the problem why there is so much inconsistency.
thanks visitor.surely afdlin has one...then how can he make a movie without one?bro, can it be published to public?
another thing...
"...F1 and Nascar is as similar to each other as sepak takraw is to a wet t-shirt contest. It is a different sport playing by different set of rules altogether."
wet t-shirt contest is a sport?wow, love to see it in the olympics...hehe
i don't think it wise for any filmmaker to make her/his films with guidebook in hand. actually, i don't think anyone does. that would be self-censorship, a worse form of censorship.
but some, like Suhaimi Baba and Pontianak HSM, send their scripts for vetting first, maybe for cost-cutting purposes, instead of wasting shots that would eventually be cut out from the final film.
btw, i've just been told that Iranian censorship is more clear-cut and the rules are very clear. unlike ours which is open to any interpretation.
so there.
Wei time out, stop talking and start having raya! Its raya dude, salam aidilfitri to all of u out there! Darth Vader pon kena take time out battling jedis and have some rest in his chamber.
I feel the same way with censorship. I don't think the government has enough faith in the ppl's intellect. that's why they still want to control what we can and cannot see. Like a parent of a 5-yr old child.
SELAMAT HARI RAYA, CHIEF KODOK AND ALL OTHER KODOKS!
As'kum Afdlin,
Salam Eid ul-Fitr. Ampun maaf dipinta sekiranya ada terkasar bahasa menghiris hati dan jiwa.
So what are you having for raya, this year?
I buat ketupat instant jekk last nite, with rendang ayam Brahim's. Paksa my partner makan jugak uols even tho dier kurreng skett minat ketupat nihh (he called it solid rice katanya.. huhu) At least he didn't have to eat them with VEGEMITE!! :-P
Mrasalah I pagi2 raya nih makan ketupat left over! Hehe..
Take care and all the best.
::cekodok vegemite::
i just saw afdlin a.k.a chief kodok tapi hari ni chief terpaksa jadi nyamuk a.k.a moq ... and ida nerina a.k.a tapir a.k.a pirrrr .... it was so funny .... that was done selambuerlyyy well done chief and ida ... love u all ... selamat hari raya maaf zahir batin ....
hello abe mok...
selamat hari raya...
makan ketupat tuh...
ingat-ingat lah orang disini...
yang makan ketupat tiruan cap Adabi
When i log on to your website this morning and saw the title of the day ... i said to myself ... "gWhen i log on to your website this morning and saw the title of the day ... i said to myself ... "greeaatt ... here were go again ...". But thankfully, no angry rants to be found (not that i mind).
I have to admit that for my post on films were seem a bit arrogant on my part. Especially when i said "you filmmakers can learn a thing or two from us engineers." Although at the time of the writing, it didnt seem like im implying that filmmakers are uneducated. But if there is something that i learn from my years hanging out at technical forum, you can be dead honest on something, but if you say crap about somebody else's work ... you know you're gonna get a beating. Heck i wont be happy if somebody said my car design looks like it was designed by a business major (nothing against you business major :)).
Honestly, i wish i had a blog where afdlin and you guys can take a swing at me for a change :). Maybe if afdlin starts another post on his blog based on a comment i made, maybe it's time for me to start blogging hehe. Well, one of these day i guess.
First off, engineering and filmmaking, maybe not the best comparison. I get confused at my own writings, imagined what happened this morning when i had to read afdlin's post on Renault, Ferrari and Minardi (and i recant the comparison of Schumacher and Yoong :)).
and since we're talking about yoong, let me get sidetrack here a bit before continuing on with my post. For those of you who look down on Yoong (nothing to do with afdlin's comment on schumacher vs. yoong post) ... you should be ashamed of yourself. Im a big fan of him and i think he got more balls and more technical know how of racing than any other racers in Malaysia. Yes, he didnt do so well driving next to Mark Webber (where my nick came from, and who happens to be on par with schumacher), but did you guys know, he is actually one of the best driver in Minardi's history?
About 2 years ago, a technical publication made an article with a title "Is Yoong really that bad?." And from their research, they found out that yoong is actually one of the top driver in Minardi's history. I wont go into details on their findings, but he's definitely one of the best driver ive seen in malaysia.
I dont know if you guys got a chance to watch one of the recent A1 GP race (www.a1gp.com), but it took a lot of balls for him to hold up another driver from germany for so many laps. It reminds me of how Alonso hold up Schumacher in Spa or Monza (cant recall) early this year.
Okay back to writings (heheh sorry, just thought i'd throw it in there since i dont have a blog to have a proper writings).
When i first read afdlin's post on censorship, my initial reactions was ... strict censorships dont produce bad movies or lack of interest of the movies. It's just unfortunate that my writings stray me away in getting my message across.
I dont have any technical knowledge of filmmaking, but i do watch a lot of movies. And from all the movies ive seen in malaysia, i dont think the censorship board is the one to blame, unless it gets in the way on the flow of the movie.
My biggest concern is if the censorship starts loosening up their views, filmmakers will make movie out of "freedom of speech's" sakes. And then, you have all these filmmakers trying to prove something by being provocative or confrontational just because they can. And i think bad movies can spring out of loosened censorships too.
And i think ... one scene couldnt really judge the movie as a whole. I first seen Sepet on VCD w/out the censored scenes taken out. It's really not much of a difference than the edited one on theatres. I think a good movie is gonna be a good movie regardless of the edited scenes (unless of course, it messes up the whole flow of the story).
A scene in a movie can create good hype for the whole movie but i never seen a movie that is judged by one scene. Sure, you might lose some exciting scene that moviegoers talk about after the movie, but people dont spend RM 6 on a movie based on one scene or a couple of provocative scenes (unless of course, you have erra being half naked and whatnot).
As for international market, i dont fully agree with less censorship would create interesting content (regardless of international viewers or not). I think if your movie is being judged by international viewers, they wouldnt be able to realized the difference between having a baling duster scene (for example) and the one w/out, unless you showed it to them. You wont know what's missing, unless you've known it's there.
Sure, if you had shown the international viewers on baling duster scene (again, as an example), everybody would go "hmmm ... that's something ive never seen before ..." but then ... you most certainly have the viewere think "interesting scene ... let's see what the rest of the whole movie is all about ..."
It's definitely movie as a whole. Just like designing a race car (sorry ... cant stay away from my engineering roots). You can create a wonderful aerodynamic package, but if you didnt get the suspension geometry or your powertrain capabilities right ... you aint going nowhere. Im sure you already know that, but i figured i'd just emphasized on the fact that a scene of a couple of scenes does not justify the movie as a whole, hence, the censorship board isnt the one to blame (well, maybe not entirely).
I guess what im trying to say is ... there are a lot of way we can be creative in the eyes of international viewers without having to fall into international viewers demand or needs.
Usually, these scenes that we think would get an international approval is really far cry from what is actually considered intrigue by them. I think i read somewhere in USA today about how hollywood is starting to notice some of the asians industry for some fresh new ideas.
I for one feel that, if we had shown SEPET in the edited version to the international viewers, SEPET would still win those awards. IMHO.
Im not sure what kind of data that was presented which could prove that SEPET would be a better movie without the scenes taken out but im quite positive it wasnt based on the comparisons between the original and the theatre released.
Maybe ... just maybe ... (im thinking out loud here) ... you can organize an outlet where malaysian filmmakers can produce a film without having it screened by the board of censorship. Kinda like having an internet theatres where malaysians can pay to watch the movies and instead of having it on a big screen, they will have it on their computer screen. Im sure if it's really good, it'll create a lot of buzz around Malaysia and prove once and for all, a movie based on a loose censorship is a better movie. I guess that's the only way you can prove whether or not what you claim is actually acceptable or not.
Gosh ... i should have my own blog if i were going to spend this much time on a comment :). I used to write for www.terato.com a couple of years ago, i guess maybe i should one of my own just so afdlin can spend a half hour typing session on my comment box :).
p/s: To those who commented on engineering vs. art, i for one, feels that engineering and art is one of the same. Some engineers might disagree with me but my experiences led me to think that engineering is not engineering without the art, and vice versa. And that my fellow frens, is another topic for another day.
Didnt put my signature on there ... so ... the above post is from ...
Webber
hi all,
just nak tanyer pendapat mengenai censorship ikut rules/regulation of Islam. i.e pergaulan bebas and so on..
do we have to ketepikan keIslaman kita untuk glamor?
just nak tanyer je
Webber dude,
why do you think that filmmakers here are only interested in making films for foreign audiences? most want to make Malaysian films for Malaysians.
the whole censorship issue is NOT about whether the censored scenes would make any difference to a foreign audience. it's about treating local audiences like idiots, about the rules and guidelines being so vague, filmmakers don't even know how to adhere to them if they wanted to.
and for you to assume that filmmakers will start making provocative films just for the sake of being provocative is really putting the cart before the horse. and even if they do, so what's wrong with that? i'd rather have that than filmmakers not being able to do ANYTHING.
well said visitor,
and to friends out there who want to start a discussion going, please don't stay ANONYMOUS, it's like talking to no one. So you will be treated like no one.
kalau betul-betul interested nak borak, make yourself known, so we know you are not someone who will waste everyone's time.
Afdlin
here i'm talkin about 'just nak tanya jer!' not webber, though it would be great if you did have a blog so we can come a visiting.
anyway webber,
bad movies will come out if there is money to be made no matter what the censorship scenario is bro.
And What is wrong with being provocative? the intention of stories are to provoke or invoke a certain kind of emotion to remind us we are human. That is why you want to see Rambo kick the shit out of the police in the first movie. Although it is cinema and not politics, In many developed countries in the world cinema is a mirror of many real life issues. Like the animation Animal Farm, a story of a bunch of farm animals and their daily conflicts, is a story about the evils of communism "All animals are equal, some more equal than others".
We live in a society where it is taboo to talk about so many things and these things are the things we say we wanna fix. affects people
Imagine a film as an engine.
To a film director, having a scene cut to a director is like having a a part of an engine missing. The engine might still be able to run but it is a bit cacat and the worst part is even if the consumers don't realise it but the engine designer will know. Every scene, was put there for a reason, like every part is for an engine.
As for cut scenes and engineering for that matter, would you put something into a design if it is unnecessary in the first place. I think not. And for the rest of the censored movies , how do you know wether they would not have made the movie an even better experience with the scenes back in. Agreed, that on the other hand, the movie could still be crap, but in the end, you will actually never know because the choice has been taken out of your hands.
At the end of the day, film is subjective. I might love a movie which you hate as in the situation of today's malay film market. The movies that we slag about (except for sepet - on that count i don't agree with you. I think it is a brilliant movie, representing the malay people i know) are making so much money at the box-office. So off course to them censorship doesn't matter, because they just wanna do one kind of movie - formulaic crap meant to ensnare unsuspecting local movie-goers hard earned cash. BUT what these people are doing is actually killing the industry. Cause consumers, like your goodself, would have lost it's faith in malaysian cinema.
yalah webber... you should have a blog man. i'm reponding to my own entry is a bit salah isn't it.
:)
afdlin
salam all....
can we back to early 90's... this are something to remember
when hot movie like fenomena or isabella when ramona rahman mandi berkemban di luar rumah ..... and it been potray nicely... keke.. remember that time ? the big issue ...
or scene from CINTA KRISTAL i think .... when a so salled 'sex scene' been potray in the dark shadow... i couldnt huraikan.. sbb dah lama tak tgk balik this film......
scene mandi berkemban dlm SPINNING GASING pun ada juga ... dlm kolam renang dan bersama lelaki pulak tuh... haha isu berkemban nih... keke...
scene nasi kangkang dlm ISTERI, PEREMPUAN DAN .... pun salah satu isu ada masa itu ......
just other example from SEPET ....... :)
or movie like JOGHO, KAKI BAKAR.. crafted by U-WEI HAJI SHAARI .... the rest i didnt remember but the content more direct and hv this movie been banned? or cut ?.. so far i didnt remember .... correct me
maybe off topic but those film does made a BIG ISSUE SOMETIMES AGO...
visitor,
i might had focused on the wrong a different issue here. I was under the impression that the censorship issue came about when filmmakers are stripped off their creativity by the censorship board, hence, the inability to be competitive in the international market. And that, by getting international recognition, we would be a major player in the global market, regardless of its acceptance by malaysian viewers. Maybe i misunderstood Afdlin's writing but im pretty sure he mentioned something about international market. But you're right, the main topic here is about the censorship board not being able to put the trust on malaysian filmmakers (and i know there are malaysian filmmakers who want to make movies for malaysians) and not about international market. I guess that half hour rant was a waste :).
My take on making movies for provocative sake is like focusing on one element of the movie instead of the whole movie. To me, it's like trying to find the best driver in the world and forgetting the machine he's driving in. He's fast alright, but with a slow machine, he's not going anywhere.
It's like the engineering competition i went to a couple of years ago. This school had made the whole race car with carbon fibres (it's like fiberglass type strands, black colored, i think you can find this material in auto shop around malaysia). The whole idea of building a race car out of carbon fibre is to keep the weight down, hence, faster car. I mean, they had Carbon Fibre (CF) wheels, CF body work, CF suspension, and some other parts in the car that you wouldnt believe could be made ouf of CF. When i asked the engineer in the team about the idea of using CF on the whole car, the guys replied "we wanna blow everybody's mind on having CF on the whole car ... it'll kick ass ... and ohhh to keep the weight down too." By the end of the competition ... they didnt even get to the Top 30. Obviously, the judges werent too impressed.
I hope you get the whole idea of what im trying to get into. When you try to focus on being provocative just for the sake of it, you will lose the intimacy between the film and the viewers and most probably lose track of what was the first reason you're trying to be provocative for.
But like afdlin said, film is subjective (very subjective i might add). Both of you might have some knowledge on how to work on a provocative ideas and turn it into a good film where it interacts with the viewers. But my opinion is strictly from a viewers point of view. Im not saying that you guys have been making movies for so long that you forget what we the viewers want, but sometimes when you've been in the producers chair for a while, you're starting to have a different point of view than the viewers, and have some of your own.
So ... my opinion might sound a bit irrelevant or useless, but you never know what a not so good idea can do sometime.
Just to throw a story in here ... some frens of mine who were mainly business minded and educated businessmen were wondering if i could build a car for less than 5 grand. Then we all could hang out once a week at the racetrack (basically, just like afdlin's weekly futsal, where we men, sibuk sangat ngan bini and anak anak, but at the same time, tak nak sisihkan all these bujang terlajak, so goes the weekly hangout, my social life was pratically over when all these wives start to get jeles bcoz we all still acting like we're on our early 20s).
First time i heard the idea, i burst in laughter (and of course, when you laugh at someone else's idea, you know they're gonna start being offensive). I mean, 5 grand is practically cheaper than a go kart, let alone trying to build a race car. I thought to myself, these guys have no idea how car building works. You cant even get it done if you were working on it for free. And of course, after my cynical comments, i was bombarded with all these comments on, basically, if you cant make it happen, you really are not that good of an engineer. I didnt really put much thought to it until about 2 years ago. I started to look around for parts, and realized, there is a 40% chance of making it happen. Not a good probability, but when engineering is 10% science and 90% effort, 40% seems like a good number.
My point is, an idea might seem stupid at first, but you never know what could spring out of it. And ohh ... wish me luck, if i get a chance to go back to malaysia in a year or two, i could possibly make my dream car come true with a price tag of RM 5K :).
... after a minute pause ...
you know afdlin, when i went over my post (something which i have to do more often now), i started to think that my post has nothing to do with the discussions you have above. Maybe a line or two could possibly make some sense, but the rest seems kinda sway away from the the censorship disccussion.
So ... after spending 20 minutes writing, i think it'll be a waste if i just deleted the post so i thought i'll just post this anyway eventhough i think it's full of irrelevant comments. Hope you dont mind :). I think maybe i enjoy writing so much that i forgot why i started in the first place. When the doctors told me i got ADD in college, they werent playing i guess hehe (that's Adult Attention Deficit Disorder, or double ADD).
Webber
Selamat Hari Raya!
hi Webber,
i agree that you should definitely start a blog. u're a very opinionated guy and i think you have a lot to say about a lot of things. we could all learn from each other, so start one, man!
I was checking up on the term "censorship" and found that it comes from a Latin word, "censere" which means to give as one's opinion or to assess. In early times, it was the Roman censors who act as magistrates and took the census count and served as assessors and inspectors of morals and conduct.
In contrast to that straightforward definition from Roman times, it would appear that present contemporary usage offers no agreed-upon definition of the term or when to use it.
Those who believe in some form of film censorship hold the view that censorship protects the moral values that are prevalent in society, thus it reflects our values. This is basically a governmental philosophy that is paternalistic as it is based on the assumption that they know what is best for their citizens. Anything that challenges this exclusive view must be banned or excluded.
The counter-argument is that censorship imposes the values of certain people, who do not necessarily respect the rest of us, and it assumes that we are not capable of mature, safe responses to "immoral" material.
U guys seem to be fond of the car & engineering analogy for films and censorship but I like to suggest a new analogy of a tailored shirt:
I buy a shirt because it fits me and I feel comfortable and good wearing it. Imagine if there is a shirt on sale that is missing a couple of buttons and one of the collars snipped off, heck I don't care if it is a ZEGNA, I'm not going to buy it or even wear it.
Or imagine one trying to re-tailor,re-cut or alter that masterpiece dress which has been completed by Gianni Versace, he'll probably turn in his grave and haunt you forever.
Nonetheless, I think that any outright banning of a film is kinda passe today as this suppressive function has now in reality been largely superseded in many countries by a new function of "guidance" which is not found at all in older concepts of censorship. So we gotta move from censorship to classification according to the type of audience for which they are considered suitable.
So the job of the censor or censorship board should be to provide guidance and it is left for the most part to individual filmgoers (particularly parents) to decide for themselves whether they wish to follow this advice or not. This change has come about through the legislative provision of a wide range of recommendatory certificates or classifications or ratings. On the supposition that his advice will be widely and correctly advertised, the Censor is enabled to approve, uncut and unemasculated, a great number of films which he would otherwise feel bound to cut heavily, or even ban outright.
So therefore, in the majority of cases the responsibility of choice is placed squarely on the consumers themselves. In essence, to achieve a flexible and liberal censorship system, involving a minimum restriction of the rights of moviegoers as a whole, can be brought about only by placing a heavy responsibility on parents, teachers, and all those who have
any control over children.
Perhaps the burning issue is one of protection of the children who are viewers therefore it is often argued that filmmakers must accept a sense of their own responsibility for the health and welfare of the whole of society, especially for the welfare of children.
I feel that there are various possible approaches to this censorship debate in that we can assume one of these statements and move our arguments from there ie.
1. Films are potentially
influential.
2. Viewers of films receive
messages, which, in some cases,
they need to be protected from .
3. There are certain people who
are capable of judging what
others should be able to see.
Thus, in effect, there is a difference between an argument that disagrees with all of the three statements above (i.e. a view that suggests films are not influential) and an argument that asserts that films can influence, but that citizens should not be all treated as though they cannot interpret filmic images safely.
Like Afdlin said about "being provocative", I think the most common, and perhaps the best, argument against censorship is the claim that regulation would lead to routine productions rather than intelligent and thought-provoking films.
Btw, bulp, thanks for bringing up those incidents, maybe someone should make a comprehensive list of stuff like these with the actual number of cuts "requested",the reasons given for it, what followed on appeal etc etc.
I remember Mark Twain once wrote this: "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
So, excuse me, where's my burger and give me my steak, man!
Hi Jasonl
Love your Mark Twain quote - makes methink of all us steak eater film lovers who hate having to slurp up the sweet and salty slop that makes up our d-grade sell-out movies...
Christina
i hate malaysian movies because most of them are fake.. u know laa.. talking so damn politely while the real malaysians are generally rude.. we're so bersatu padu antara kaum while the real situation is.. racism do exist in malaysia.. u go to the university and u'll see a group of malays.. a group of chinese.. and etc laa.. these are the things that should be presented in a movie and at the same time the director should reflect how bad that thing is laa.. but yeah.. malaysians only love compliments.. and we hardly accept bad things about ourselves.. i wish we can produce an honest and malaysian film like sepet more.. and no more PGL like movie laa.. yeah.. an epic movie is great but if our princess looks more like a 40 yr old widow.. then that's a disgrace to the country.. and also the history la.. :P hail chief kodok!
Japan makes some of the most gruesome, violent, seram, jijik films in the world. the Asian Hardcore Champion title probly belongs to them. but hey, look at his: Japan's crime rate is lower than America, where if you make those kinds of films u see in Japan, u'll get an NC-17 rating from the MPAA. if you take the stand that films are influential and dangerous, then the Japanese would be killing, raping, robbing, mutilating, shooting and butchering one another right now.
there has never been any hard evidence that films or rock music have led people to commit criminal acts, even though the Charles Manson case was linked to Helter Skelter, the Bulger murder was linked to Child's Play. but NO HARD EVIDENCE.
selamat hari raya jugak afdlin... webber, kat mana aku dengar nama tu ah? aa baru ingat dia sociologist yg prominet, setahap ngan karl marx dan emile durkheim. any balik semula ke isu film kita. aku rasa films cam sepet memang like a breath of fresh air. wlwpun personally tak suka pun cerita tu, at least aku puji gak idea yasmin ahmad buat muvie yg lain dari kebiasaan. langkah berani tu! people like her are needed to rejuvenate our film industry. takkan nak terkongkong ngan satu genre of movie sangat kan? tapi movie2 genre lain pun kena ada gak. PGL pun satu langkah berani. tak kisah la kalau org tak suka sebab personal preference. banyak sebenarnya movie malaysia yg in my opinion, yg berkualiti. aku cukup suka cerita berlari ke langit. cerita tu umpama komentar yg bagus. tentang in inequalities that still exist in our country. cerita tragedi bukit kepong, aku pun suka sebab mesej patriotik, dan jugak sebab flim tu depiction sejarah. citer ko, buli tu pun aku suka. sebab aku pun mangsa buli waktu sekolah. at least dalam movie tu aku bleh reflect balik, how good my life is now, dan problem zaman sekolah is arbitrary, it will be over once you're out of the school.
it is just that dalam industry film kita, selain dri censorship, ialah org suka carik jalan mudah. bila satu cerita genre cinta tu box office, semua start buat cerita camtu. kalau citer comedy slapstick laku plak, semua org start buat movie camtu sampai tak larat nk tgk. I mean, bagi la variety sket. biar dalam satu masa, ada film komentar sosial, ada film comedy, ada film cinta. takde la jemu sangat tgk cerita sama jek all the time.
kalau makan lauk sama setiap hari selama sebulan, sure muak dah kan? try 10 puluh tahun. sure rasa nak muntah nyer.
anyway aku budak engineering gak. betul gak kate dia, kita kena work around the limitation. cuma kalau limitation tu binding sangat, memang besar kemungkinan projek tu non feasible no matter what.
teruskan buat filem. kalau tak terus mencuba, macam mana nak dapat hasilnya kan?
tambahan: kadang2 boleh gak buat movie yg best dari idea yg simple. have you watched 'garden state'? the movie is brilliant. citer pasal mamat sorg ni nak experience feelings that he used to have before he was prescribed with drugs after an unfortunate accident. simple kan? tapi menarik dan deep. furthermore, the usage of songs in the soundtrack are also played a big part in making the movie so good. although it's more of a thinking movie and I know a lot of people won't like it.
yes, the CB sucks. but then again, malaysian movies lack some of the ingredients found in great movies(imho) like shawshank redemption, Pi, requiem for a dream and some others(my list can go on). what im talking about is a good character development, and change. take note of what The People wants(hope, refreshment, strength) rather than some half-baked(or stale) ideas before you(i'm not pointing at cif though) start inking the script. the malaysian scene is changing though(take gol and gincu fer example) but the pace is not yet fast enough. forgive my ramblings(still hvng nightmares after watching "neon") because i do believe, if theres a group of people that can bring the much needed intellectual change that malaysia needed, its going to be you guys here(with all the thought provoking discussions!) in this blog. that includes you cif!!
Go get 'em people! It's about time for the rest of the world to finally KNOW us. As a Malaysian living abroad myself, it's disappointing when I introduce our country and they go.."Huh?You mean INDOnesia?..HUh?What's that again?"
One good way for us to be known is of course through films. I find that the film industry in Malaysia is so so so so slowly improving. If the Hindis can go to Hollywood, so can us! I don't know how to do it but I believe people like you, Afdlin Shauki, can! I believe you can take us there!
Eh saper cakap Hollywood tak recognise Malaysia. Cuba korang tengok cerita TV 24 tu. Remember the first season? What was the very first opening scene? yeaaa...
Bangunan KLCC and to be so stereotype of them, KL looks like VietKong kingdom. AKu harap kalau ada ID4 part 2, lets hope ada UFO letopkan KLCC pas tu background orang kita lari kat sawah ngan kerbau. Fuck HollyFuckingWood! yea. Tapi aku tgk gak all the major studio releases. AH well, it feels good to yell Fuck Hollywood. Plus they dont make profit over DVD sales in this region. BooHoo cry baby.
I myself dah sampai satu tahap boikot movies2 yg di tunjuk di cinema malaysia, both international and local. why the hell i need to pay RM10 to see a movie that
1. dah kena potong oleh our stupid CB
2. subtitle cam sial (i.e the day after tomorrow = lusa etc etc).
I am an avid DVD collector and used to be an avid movie goer too. Right now i rather spend my money on DVDs, both cetak rompak and original ones. i don't mind spending couple of hundred bucks buying really good collectors movie online such as Savings Private Ryan, Shawshank, Matrix 10 dvds collection, etc.
Heck i also resent of the idea of buying DVDs region 3 from speedys! coz i know, i dont want movie experience to be spoilt by our stupid CB's actions.
Back to the discussion.
The basic argument is how to make our m'sian produced movies marketable and the only answer lies in CB. Yes, i agree that we need to have a WRITTEN censorship guidelines so that CB can follow them always. Such as anything that can be offensive to Islam or our culture should not be shown to the public.
and if this can be realised, i bet we'll have some excellent movies produced right here in our own country as well as be successful overseas.
freak
www.hafizismail.com
dude...
there is no such a thing called MALAYSIA MOVIE that totally make for MALAYSIAN ... as in MULTI-CULTURE, MULTI-RELIGION, and much much more different MULTI........ but we have to think something about this.....
from start we are different ... (as mention above PLUS INFLUENCES & OPINION) how are we gonna blend or collaborate to make a TOTALLY MALAYSIA MOVIE?
as in SEPET, it just a jump start for something new..... the FFM award recently seem agreed with THEM.
what is MALAYSIA?
what is ART?
even what is HUMAN?
what is FINAS then?
who are the person behind it? what are their track record? since when the FINAS established? what are the main purpose of FINAS?
all this at :
http://www.finas.gov.my/
http://www.mff.com.my/laman_utama.asp
http://www.finas.gov.my/panduan.htm <<---- the "CB GUIDELINE" still under construction ??????
how to generate ideas from scratch and develop it, blend it, shape it, revise it... (even throw it away and start for something new, even get it back and do it again and again until satisfy) and hope that the result/message akan sampai dgn 'SELAMAT' atau the viewer will get what your message is all about.... it hard,... totally hard
we have to do research and proof in order to make our statement more accurate or concrete.
our chief kodok .. he is this line this is his life.. part of it thou... :)... he knew what he want and hopefully he know what he gonna do with it since all the kodok kodok here will watch every move he gonna make .... keke
most of malaysian just like this,... they gonna watch it from LUAR and they will GENERATE THEIR OPINION BASED ON WHAT THEY SAW OR HEARD if they didnt like it THEY WILL TOTALLY CONDEMN IT..... "kerana nila setitik, rosak susu sebelanga"
there is reason behind all this... and we have to deal with it, and we have to compromise too, itulah kehidupan like it or not ..... not all from LUAR SANA tu bagus.... we have to FACE THE REALITY ..... "berpijak dibumi yang nyata"
no offense here and im not trying to be racism since my blood is red too....
add little more .....
Menteri Kebudayaan, Kesenian dan Warisan Malaysia, Datuk Seri Utama Dr. Rais Yatim already make a BIG CHANGES IN DIRECTING THE MALAYSIAN MOVIE... ie, the theme for Festival Filem Malaysia Ke 18 - 2005 : FILEM MALAYSIA ERA GLOBALISASI
remember when last or former menteri penerangan malaysia stated and totally ban rap song. or if there is rap verse or chorus in song they gonna ban it first then the recording company hv to take out those rapping in that song in order to make the song been able to airplay in radio channel ... those in late 80's and early 90's ....... even bahasa rojak ie, english + bahasa melayu pun di ban at that time...
but now seem everything already change .. and hopefully (already proof) the new menteri will make a progressive environment for our entertainment industry......
aiyo so lambat to respond, so i wont respond to d issue webber brought up again (but i like webber's courage to admit his mistake, now dats more like a good engineer). but erm, couldn't i agree wit mao more?
its true, unity issue, polite scripts... i think film makers and CB should do sumthing bout dat. even the iranian movies that webber likes so much has relaxed conversations. some movies had a good attempt to 'relax' the conversations, but some... polite tak kena tempat. it looks so unnatural!
bout unity issue, i understand the attempt of trying to convey as much unity content into our movies/dramas, but it HAS to blend wit d scene! and kalau nak betul unity sangat2, why unite only chinese malay and indian??? what happened to kadazan? iban? melanau? maybe GK has to haf some iban policemen (no offense mr yusof haslam, it's jest a suggestion :p).
this is why i love films/telemovie like sepet, rabun, buli, and thank u for dat person who brought up bout kaki bakar, perempuan isteri dan ... (which should've been jalang, whats so bad bout jalang? some parents swear ba alif ba ya all d time at home)... u knoe... these movies has natural scripts.
wat's d point of having restrcitions (18pl, sg, sx) if basically, or actually, every films are almost neutral?
and sumthing off topic - did u guys watch pontianak harum sundal malam on TV yesterday? sampai dah tak paham dah cerita tu because sooo many scenes kena potong (in this case, its obviously to cut down airtime la kan).
disclaimer ::
this is jest an opinion... i'm still green in the film making world anyway.
nurmisya :: sayang kan bila dikenang-kenang, our attempt with CG (which stands for computer grafix for ignorants) di potong potong dan dikelar kelar? maybe the CB members should try tak tido malam buat CG then they know WHY they shouldnt potong potong all the CG done for PHSM, or even other movies. the CG people, + director macam nak pecah kepala adjust the beziers, effects, positions, not to mention if they haf 3D modellings/animations.... then suddenly people jest potong potong just because 'its too scary' 'its too tahyul' 'its too ganas'. again, i quote my own earlier comment, wats d reason of having 18 SX, PL and SG???
and then bila CG kita looks tak 'betul' some people will start saying 'nak buat effects pun biarla cantik cantikkkk' ahaa... try la buat sendirii, ni software pun beli kat pasar malam nak kecoh. adoi adoi... sorry if i offend anyone. but this is reality.
u see, thats another point to the problem of censorship...now ppl can't even tell if a movie is bad becos of excessive censorship, or becos it is just a bad movie. to me, Ponti HSM is a bad movie regardless of the cuts made, cos the script doesn't work (granted it had to be vetted first before production started, that i understand). but the way they portrayed the hantu was a bit ridiculous la. that kind of white-faced, red-eyed ghost doesn't work anymore.
btw, Prodigal, you couldn't have said it better. if there are so many car accidents in a year, then might as well ban all motor vehicles, right?
ok eventho i'm a bit 'sick' of d way they cut PHSM, but i agree wit visitor at some point he he. the make up for dat pontianak is certainly ridiculous, because pontianak do NOT need a pair of red eyes to be scary, and the part i dun understand is, if maria is the daughter, how come there's lubang paku at the temple/neck/wutever? or is it not maria, its mariam? but i tot its mariam who rasuk maria? haiya.. bikin script kasi orang pening.
that pontianak look more like a clown to me.. hahahahaha!
Salam lebaran,
i'm one of ur fan. Can i link ur blog in mine? Luvs reading ur entries. Its very refreshing!
banyaknyer post!!!seiap dengan research and footnotes!i thiink i'm gonna add something so here goes:
1. to Freak(www.hafizismail.com - Your site is only one page,or is it that i can't find the navigation buttons?) - about the subtitles,'Lusa' is not the first and not the last. we have gone past the day of "ready,aim,fire!" translated to "sedia,acu,tembak!". but still, there are some words that's not supposed to be traslated, and should be left alone in english. they even took the liberty to translate names such as Hellboy(Pemuda Neraka), The Punisher (Penyeksa) and many more.click here if you want to see more.
2.Kak Chris - wow, our movie is really that bad?D-grade?watched a movie called Alien Species where the Hero's car was shot by a bazooka and still can run, but exploded bila langgar tiang lampu.that s**tty movie only get a B-Grade.sheesh!!
3.There's no 1 thing to be blamed on any occurance. everything happened in a cascade, a domino effect.1 causes another that causes another.some bloody hotshot went racing not only because of watching some movie.sombody doesn't go for a killing spree because he watched a killing movie.A movie may be a trigger for an incident, but there are other causes as well, and these causes have been neglected for so long.it is unfair to let movies become a scapegoat for these problems.even (to me, my own rating) crappy movies like Anak Mami series tried to point out this fact.maybe we just can't see it, because the directors had to (of forced) put it ever so subtly, we can't see it.another reason to relax cencorship?maybe.
6. Censorship had saved us.rating may not save us as of yet.imagine how a malaysian would feel if he watched Zoolander where it potrayed Malaysian as a Communist country, and a model with a pose that can stop bullets (literally) saved the Prime Minister (who looked dumb and gila seks) from assassination.cencorship did a right thing from putting that movie in our cinema.we still get to see it though, thanks to the pirates).although some films that had passed censorship like entrapment did potray malaysia badly (to me,again,my rating),CB still have its relevance.having said that, i still agree it needs to move with the flow, the winds of change.
5. rasa macam nak defend our movie pulak.Our movie have been improving since the day Malaysians took the director's chair from Aussies, Indians and Singaporeans (no offence to any of those countries).i believed that our movie makers make movies that our viewers want to see.During the Sepet screening on TV yesterday (saturday), somebody said "boring la, slow je citer dia.eh, malam ni ada citer ******* ,lagi best.(judul dirahsiakan, but believe me, it's a crappy malaysian box-office movie)." there are many good malaysian movies here (noted in the comments above, PGL, Berlari ke langit, perempuan,isteri&..., jogho, kaki bakar), but which of these actually made money for the producer?what then, will they use to pay the bills?
yes, we have seen non-mainstream movies made out of almost no external financial support at all, like Chennam Malai and Broken Washing Machine.but then,they just menang sorak, without much money made out of them.but their effort is a far cry from the producers of Star Wreck which took 7 years to be made on personal financial support only(excluding technical support from various parties including fans).i really believe we could do it.and since afdlin is embarking on a similar path, we must show all those capitalist short buffaloes that we can do it!
No, we need not RM 5millionn to make a malaysian Good Will Hunting or any robin williams,tom hanks films.but can it sell?with our (generally speaking) current mindset, i believe it may not.
yes, some of us watch these beautiful movies.but as long as there are absence of large audience for these kind of movies, it will always be a niche market.a market not everybody wants to risk their money in, and not everybody who dared to venture succeded.if not, why would Cip resort to seek alternative financial assistance for Los&Faun?
yes, someone have to make the 1st BIG move,to make a good movie.and then us viewers have to make their part, to actually go and watch these movies, to make a PRESENCE.but, how can we watch if no one's showing it, how can we?there comes the govt's role.
Think Outside the Qube
lizzam: saje je letak splah page. used to be a blog, but i couldn't be bothered anymore...
freak
www.hafizismail.com
lizzam :: hmm.. bout d 'money matters' james lee (director of beautiful mwashing machine etc)once gave a talk to my coursemates bout d camera he uses and casting. the camera isnt those fancy cameras some 'big' film makers in Malaysia uses, but if u watched it, the quality is d same with those big big movies. and he was lucky because people like elaine daly and i-forgot-who-but-its-a-good-looking-model is his close friend. so budget wasnt a big issue. so yeah, i couldnt agree wit u more, it didnt get much of our countrymen's attention, obviously its because of MINDSET.
Hello bro,
Apa yg dilihat adalah AS (afdlin shauki) lain dari yg lain...itu yg kita nak dalam industri ini,bukan yg sama je acuan dan gaya cerita.
Teruskan usaha anda yg unik...bila tengok AS ni memang teringat kat seseorang ;-)
(ini confirm by my niece le...)
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